50 Responses

1. JoshWay  •  December 2, 2004 @2:50 pm
   

   Bravo, Laura!

   I happened to watch the ENTIRE Kelsey Grammer crap-fest (hey, I was drawing Gabe pages while I watched it), and I can tell you it didn’t get any better. So many things wrong with it:

   -The acting. The performances were as unfortunate as Laura has suggested. Grammer was far too over the top in the beginning scenes, scowling and limping, yet as the story progressed his Scrooge became inappropriately sympathetic. In this version, Ebenezer was crying and epiphany-ing halfway through the Ghost of Christmas Present. His heart had changed long before the Ghost of Christmas Future arrived.

   -Dialects/accents. This was a painfully American movie. Not only were the accents (for the most part) cartoonish cockney caricatures, but the real giveaway was the fact that the characters sang with these bad accents. When a British performer sings, it’s usually difficult to discern their accent. Jane Krakowski, about as American as you can get, sang the song “Remember” with an emphatic “RememBUH”. Lame.

   -Not a single memorable song. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again: a musical is not just a series of songs that advance a plot. A musical is an engaging story that happens to be told with music. By this criteria, A Christmas Carol fails. The songs are instantly forgettable and lousy with lyrics in one of two lame categories: sing-songy dialog or Old World nonsense words (hey nonny nonny, tatta tatta). Hard to believe two extremely talented creators were responsible for it (Menken and Ahrens).

   -Bad direction/staging. This relates to Laura’s observation about the inappropriate art direction. The film combines the worst of two worlds: TV-movies and off-broadway productions. Despite the fact that it’s a film and can span as many locations as it wishes, the action in A Christmas Carol is doled out in long sequences that take place in a single environment. The introductory scenes, instead of cutting between Scrooge and Marley, the Exchange, and the streets of London, take place exclusively at the Exchange. And the entire Ghost of Christmas Future sequence takes place in the cemetery (no Cratchet dinner table with the empty seat). I realize the stage version was like this (I’ve seen it), but it seems downright lazy not to more fully adapt the material to the film medium.

   -And lastly, but most importantly: Jennifer Love Hewitt.

   While we’re on the topic, what’s everyone’s favorite version of A Christmas Carol? I think I enjoyed the 1982 film starring George C. Scott the most, with the animated Mickey’s Christmas Carol a close second. I was going to make this a poll, but maybe we can just discuss it here.

2. Laura  •  December 2, 2004 @3:02 pm
   

   Overall, the movie did have the look of a poorly adapted stage show. Things that were glaringly bad in the movie would have worked better on stage.

   I forgot about Mickey’s Christmas Carol. See, there are so many good versions out there that this version is totallly superfluous.

   What part did Jennifer “Love” Hewitt play? I must have checked out long before then.

3. JoshWay  •  December 2, 2004 @3:05 pm
   

   Love Hewitt played Scrooge’s girlfriend, named Belle in the story, inexplicably named Emily in this version.

4. TEQUILACAT  •  December 2, 2004 @4:44 pm
   

   “…it went over like the proverbial turd in your Christmas punch.”Well, if it wasn’t (proverbial) before, it is now!-Priceless!!

   I too endured the entire epic operetta. Jesse Martin did a cheesy job of portraying a homosexual ghost of Christmas present, (which may be aprepos.) Perhaps it was just the fact he showed up in the middle of the enormous suck-o-rama. Jennifer love Huey gave a sucky performance in the midst of a momumental suck fest.

   My favorite versions would be (considering I have not seen a lot of versions) Muppet Christmas Carol, Scrooged, and one old one I can’t think of…but will remember at 3′oclock tomoorow morning,.. I’ll let you know…I did see a stage version, with singing and dancing and acrobatics that was fantastic, alas it was in New Mexico and I can’t remember the adaptions author. Maybe Rivkeh will.

5. rivkeh  •  December 3, 2004 @12:31 pm
   

   I don’t know about Aerobatics… but the version of Christmas Carol we grew up with was Scrooge with “Daddy Warbucks” Al Finney playing lead. Now THAT was a musical.

   Are you talking about the Claymation Christmas with the dinosaur hosts, Laura? Because that would make you my favorite person. The “We Three Kings” is a family favorite, not to mention my favorite carol of all time “Carol of the Bells”… such a good special…

   Muppets Christmas Carol gets props, even though it has that romantic song in it that is just a little annoying, but becomes more so because my Dad and best guy friend make wretching noises and inappropriate comments until it is fast forwarded through.

   I don’t know what y’all’s problem was… I saw like three minutes of the Grammar atrocity and turned it off! Geez.

6. Brian  •  December 3, 2004 @12:40 pm
   

   Thank you all for giving me more excellent, well laid out reasons for not having television. I was starting to think that I might be missing out on something. But thankfully, after reading all these reviews, I am once again certain that I am missing nothing.

   Wow, Christmas really IS the season for giving.

7. Laura  •  December 3, 2004 @2:41 pm
   

   Rivkeh, yes, that’s the claymation Christmas special I’m talking about. Although I have to give credit to mattpeck for showing it to me. They watch it every year at his house since they taped it off the TV in the late 80’s.

   Brian, I don’t know if TV is getting suckier or if I’m just getting older. There is so little TV that I actually like, though when I was a kid I could watch it non-stop.

8. TEQUILACAT  •  December 3, 2004 @4:45 pm
   

   Ok Rivkeh, your last commnent here is almost exactly what I just said on the song voting thread…you ARE me! ahahahahahahha.

   *ahem* Laura, We lost our copy of that in a move, is there anyway we could get a copy? Replace a video and send postage?Throw in some candy canes? Please oh please? We also used to watch it every Christmas and still talk about it every year…*looks up pitifully with big puppy dog, nothing for Christmas, eyes…*:cry:

9. rivkeh  •  December 3, 2004 @6:38 pm
   

   I am not nearly as cool as you Mom… we all know that.

10. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 3, 2004 @7:51 pm
    

    I remember that special, too!! I had nearly forgotten about it, though. My cousins used to have it, and we’d watch it every year, along with the California Raisins. But then they turned into psycho, fundamentalist, hyper-religious wack-jobs, and I haven’t seen it since.

    Oh, and Brian, I wouldn’t judge all of TV on a bad Kelsey Grammer Christmas special. I’m not necessarily defending the hours and hours of mindless drivel that network executives deem worthy of air time, but there are things like the Daily Show, West Wing, and the Simpsons that bring some redeeming value as a medium.

    p.s. – I just looked outside and saw a midget come up out of the ground.???

11. mattpeck  •  December 4, 2004 @7:37 am
    

    I think we still have that old copy of the video, we used to watch it to include all the old commercials from the 80s.

    Anyway, you can actually buy it in VHS or DVD format. Unfortunately the commercials do not come with it. Here’s a link to Amazon.com where you can buy the DVD for $18.

12. mattpeck  •  December 4, 2004 @7:45 am
    

    I guess I should mention that the DVD includes Easter and Halloween specials. I think we watched the Halloween special last year, and it was really weird.

13. TEQUILACAT  •  December 4, 2004 @1:16 pm
    

    Thanks mattpeck! I’ll look into it.

    btl..West Wing?I repeat, West Wing?(I am sure it was origianally titled “LEFT Wing” and someone said, “Why give it away BEFORE they tune in?”) How exactly high are you in that fancy N.Y. office building ? I don’t mean to be fearful, but perhaps the altitude has caused bubbles in your blood, or, oh God I can’t bear to think what COULD be wrong and causing this!…(Sorry. I over-reacted. I will sedate and remove myself) ??? :p

14. JoshWay  •  December 4, 2004 @1:36 pm
    

    L to the O to the L

15. Laura  •  December 4, 2004 @3:04 pm
    

    I got the claymation special from the Will Vinton studio online. The extra stuff on the dvd was not so good, so only get it if you want the Christmas special on that format specifically. If I had my copy, I’d make you a tape, but, alas, most of my stuff is in storage.

16. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 4, 2004 @4:11 pm
    

    I almost didn’t list West Wing because I knew some of you would react to me putting it there. But then I decided, screw it, I think as far as quality goes, all politics aside, it’s a ranking contender for the best acted, directed, written, and produced show in the history of television. I stand by my listing it there.

    So you can just get over your right wing political agendas! :p

17. JoshWay  •  December 4, 2004 @5:36 pm
    

    Bill, shut up. Dang.

18. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 4, 2004 @11:41 pm
    

    She started it!

19. mattpeck  •  December 5, 2004 @2:45 am
    

    I used to watch West Wing, and liked it, as my wife will attest to. However, over time the left-leaning politics started to get overbearing and I stopped caring. However, the early seasons were very nice, they had good plot, good acting, and good special guests.

    The episode I’m thinking of right now, probably because of the season, was when they had Yo Yo Ma play the cello over Josh Lyman’s flashbacks to the assassination attempt. I need to buy some Yo Yo Ma, I think.

20. JoshWay  •  December 5, 2004 @9:18 am
    

    Besides, Bill – have you read some of TEQUILACAT’s political comments? I’d say she’s far from “right-wing.” More like “right-leg”.

21. rivkeh  •  December 5, 2004 @11:14 am
    

    I’ve been known to watch a little West Wing in my time… my ex-roomie in highschool was obsessed with it her freshman year in college, so I’d watch it to have something to talk about (pathetic, I knoe. But in exchange she watched the Simpsons).

22. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 5, 2004 @3:44 pm
    

    I was kidding! It was a joke.

    Anyway… I’ll admit, I haven’t watched the West Wing in a while, either, and the very few times I have caught it, I’ve noticed it’s taken a sharper political bent. This is just a shot in the dark, but it may have something to do with Aaron Sorkin’s heroine addiction … just maybe.

    That’s what happens when new writers take over. I remember when ER used to be good, too.

    I did hear a rumor, though, that next year in the new season (when President Bartlett’s term is up), a Republican may be moving into the White House. I’d respect the show a lot if they did that.

23. TEQUILACAT  •  December 5, 2004 @3:49 pm
    

    Ok, well maybe I DID start it, but I have a confession to make, I’m really not all that interested in politics. More succintly, I hate politics.They are nasty, mean, dirty,ugly, poo-poo caa-caa, and I don’t even like to watch pretend politics. But I know West Wing has top of the line pretenders and probably the best production values to propagate their politics. However, Now that I know Rivkeh’s little secret,and given the fact she was raised a strict, fundalentalist Hippie, I will have to beat her repeatedly over the head with a copy of The New Repulic to knock some sense into her.(KIDDING, just kidding!)(about The New Republic part)

24. mattpeck  •  December 5, 2004 @10:23 pm
    

    I might respect them if they did that and didn’t show the Republican to be a war-mongering oil-loving tree-hating frothing-at-the-mouth republican like they did when the Speaker of the House temporarily took over the Presidency during the First Daughter’s abduction.

25. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @1:23 am
    

    I didn’t think John Goodman played that part at all. I know I’ve built a little reputation for myself among the regulars at this site as being some crazy lefty liberal, but in the real world (where I’m not always cocked at a funny angle in little 100×100px box wearing the same green sweater all the time) I’m a bit more moderate. I only saw 2 or so of the episodes that Goodman was in, but I thought it was fascinating to see the interplay between Democrats and Republicans in those episodes. Sure, he ran the place a lot differently than some of the regular Democrat characters were happy about, but I thought it was cool how he and Bartlett respected each other so much, despite their differences. I didn’t look at him as an oil-loving, tree-hating anything. I just thought he was an interesting character.

    I had a friend this summer who was working in New York with the Republican National Convention. She was H-A-R-D-C-O-R-E Republican. But she and I got along really well, because we both liked arguing for our positions, and came to both our point of views from well-thought out, Christian standpoints. We just happened to disagree on most things! But we respected each other very much, and built our friendship out of that. I know not everyone likes politics, and that’s fine, too. Let’s just all be friends, okay?

    Now… that being said. Who wants to bash Kelsey Grammer some more? :p

26. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @1:23 am
    

    I didn’t think John Goodman played that part at all. I know I’ve built a little reputation for myself among the regulars at this site as being some crazy lefty liberal, but in the real world (where I’m not always cocked at a funny angle in little 100×100px box wearing the same green sweater all the time) I’m a bit more moderate. I only saw 2 or so of the episodes that Goodman was in, but I thought it was fascinating to see the interplay between Democrats and Republicans in those episodes. Sure, he ran the place a lot differently than some of the regular Democrat characters were happy about, but I thought it was cool how he and Bartlett respected each other so much, despite their differences. I didn’t look at him as an oil-loving, tree-hating anything. I just thought he was an interesting character.

    I had a friend this summer who was working in New York with the Republican National Convention. She was H-A-R-D-C-O-R-E Republican. But she and I got along really well, because we both liked arguing for our positions, and came to both our point of views from well-thought out, Christian standpoints. We just happened to disagree on most things! But we respected each other very much, and built our friendship out of that. I know not everyone likes politics, and that’s fine, too. Let’s just all be friends, okay?

    Now… that being said. Who wants to bash Kelsey Grammer some more? :p

27. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @1:23 am
    

    I didn’t think John Goodman played that part at all. I know I’ve built a little reputation for myself among the regulars at this site as being some crazy lefty liberal, but in the real world (where I’m not always cocked at a funny angle in little 100×100px box wearing the same green sweater all the time) I’m a bit more moderate. I only saw 2 or so of the episodes that Goodman was in, but I thought it was fascinating to see the interplay between Democrats and Republicans in those episodes. Sure, he ran the place a lot differently than some of the regular Democrat characters were happy about, but I thought it was cool how he and Bartlett respected each other so much, despite their differences. I didn’t look at him as an oil-loving, tree-hating anything. I just thought he was an interesting character.

    I had a friend this summer who was working in New York with the Republican National Convention. She was H-A-R-D-C-O-R-E Republican. But she and I got along really well, because we both liked arguing for our positions, and came to both our point of views from well-thought out, Christian standpoints. We just happened to disagree on most things! But we respected each other very much, and built our friendship out of that. I know not everyone likes politics, and that’s fine, too. Let’s just all be friends, okay?

    Now… that being said. Who wants to bash Kelsey Grammer some more? :p

28. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @1:24 am
    

    sorry. lousy wireless connection!!

29. mattpeck  •  December 6, 2004 @4:35 am
    

    Bill, it could be that I just haven’t seen that episode, or any episode in a long time. But I don’t think that’s it. That show has a hard time portraying Republicans as “real” people. Consider the exaggerated Bush who Bartlett ran against in his re-election. Probably the only exemption I can think of is the girl who now acts in CSI:Miami.

30. JoshWay  •  December 6, 2004 @11:02 am
    

    Bill, I don’t think anyone has a major problem with your perceived “liberal views” so much as your almost evangelical proclamations of them. You seem to genuinely feel sorry people who aren’t fortunate enough to agree with you. It’s a good thing you’re such a looker, man.

    Anyhoo, listen up everybody: If you missed it the first time, you’ve got another chance to see “A Christmas Carol: The Musical” tonight on USA Network (“Where TV Movies Go to Die!”) at 9pm.

    Fire up the Tivo!

31. rivkeh  •  December 6, 2004 @11:57 am
    

    Yeah, the only made for tv movie I have any interest in seeing is on HBO, so no luck for me. Geoffry Rush playing Peter Sellers? Dude, that’s gonna be where it’s AT.

32. TEQUILACAT  •  December 6, 2004 @12:41 pm
    

    So how come in the movies or on t.v. conservatives are always fat, or rich, or old or southern, or any combinations of those things, and liberals are alway young, and smart, and hip and tan? John Goodman in politics? He outweighs Mr. Kennedy I think, who is (or was) the “largest” liberal in congress…although to his credit he(Kennedy) had a great tan. I’m really not talking politics here Josh, just politics in “art.” (Ok the art part was a stretch)

33. JoshWay  •  December 6, 2004 @1:03 pm
    

    I can dig it. And against my better judgement, I’ll join in this reindeer game:

    Movies in which the Conservative/Republican/Christian/Traditionalist/Serviceman is portrayed negatively (warmonger, fat, immoral, heartless, paranoid, etc.): The Contender, Silver City, Citizen Kane, American Beauty, Chocolat, Pleasantville, The Iron Giant, Mars Attacks!, Bullworth, Primary Colors, Edward Scissorhands, Sleepy Hollow, Three Kings, etc…

    Movies in which the Liberal/Democrat/Progressive/Activist is portrayed negatively (naive, corrupt, dishonest, radical, immoral): Um…. um…. uh…. gee…. um…. well…. boy…. maybe Team America? PCU?

34. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @1:41 pm
    

    I think that’s more a morality issue than a political issue. A lot of times people view moral conservatives as out-of-touch, or oppressive/judgmental. Sometimes they’re right; sometimes they’re guilty of the same judgmental bull crap that they’re complaining about. But Hollywood’s not the most moral town in America… conservatives don’t necessarily make them feel good about themselves.

35. JoshWay  •  December 6, 2004 @1:43 pm
    

    By the way, Team America, if you can get past the pervasive vulgarity (and why should you), is a brilliant satire. It would be hailed as the modern day Dr. Strangelove, if it leaned just a little more to the left.

36. JoshWay  •  December 6, 2004 @2:08 pm
    

    Wow, this thread has wandered far from its original intent! My bad.

37. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @3:14 pm
    

    I need to see Team America. I’ve only heard great things about it, and I love South Park’s satire.

    Oh, and by the way… sorry I’m so opinionated. It’s just who I am. I have strong opinions on lots and lots [and lots] of things. But I sincerely never mean to knock anybody personally, or come down on someone who thinks differently than me. As my brother so aptly put it, “for you and me, arguing is just like talking, but sometimes it really seems to bother some people.”

    And Matt, that CSI girl who was on the West Wing (the “Republican Sex Kitten”) was a great character! Actually, she’s almost exactly what that girl I hung out with last summer was like.

    (And while we’re on the me being opinionated thing) TC, as far as the John Goodman thing… think about the last several presidents we’ve had, though. By and large, I think the Democrats were a far better looking bunch than the Republicans. Reagan was a good looking fella in his day, but by the time he was president, he was a California Raisin. Nixon?? I mean, c’mon! The Dems have got Clinton, Carter, and JFK! A much better looking bunch.

38. bill_the_leprechaun  •  December 6, 2004 @3:15 pm
    

    Oh, and just in case anyone didn’t realize…. I was kidding around again.

39. JoshWay  •  December 6, 2004 @3:41 pm
    

    I think most of our presidents have been on the fugly side. I know a lot of women think Clinton is sexy, but I think he looks like Mr. Magoo.

40. TEQUILACAT  •  December 6, 2004 @7:52 pm
    

    I gotta agree with the joshmeister again on this one. Clinton probably has a lot of charisma and presence in person, but when you know what he is, he morphs into Mr. Magoo…or a hideous, slime covered maggot (NOT that there is anything wrong with that). Bush actually might be pretty good looking if he invested in some lips, and then kept the smirk off them…but that’s asking a lot.

    btl you are welcome to express your opinions, as far as I’m concerned. Really, they don’t make me feel like you are looking down on me (even if you are) and of course it makes ME feel superior to have someone like YOU, to look down on! (I mean as long as we’re kidding!)

    And just to get back on topic…maybe Kelsey Grammer shoud run for office…he has the lips, er, looks for it!:p

41. rivkeh  •  December 7, 2004 @11:04 am
    

    Didn’t Kelsey Grammer just play Benedict Arnold?

    Hey, yeah, no offense from our side on any debate. We’re a family of debaters. My friend Holly always thought my buddy Barry and I argued constantly, until one day she realized we were having a heated discussion from the same point of view and figured out we basically discussed things that way.

    I think this is something that used to alarm Lark (although she’ll correct me if I’m wrong), that I’ll throw ideas or opinions out there just to see what everyone’s thinking, and some people freak out thinking I believe I’m right or superior or whatever. I think it’s an inherited trait.

42. TEQUILACAT  •  December 7, 2004 @11:41 am
    

    *clears throat* Gift honey, inherited GIFT!:)

43. ziggysmallz  •  December 7, 2004 @12:37 pm
    

    pudding. mmmm!

44. Lark_the_Wind  •  December 7, 2004 @5:10 pm
    

    Yes, it very much alarmed me. I’ve made strides, though. I can listen to friendly debate without crying now, and have even asserted my own opinions against others’. =]

45. TEQUILACAT  •  December 12, 2004 @6:39 pm
    

    Ok, you can all have a wonderful Christmas knowing we FOUND the claymation Christmas,(unfortunately the camels got clipped off the front) We apparently recorded a bunch of stuff over the front and after, including some fun ‘Smother’s Brother’s Episodes, and old SLN when they had some writers. I think we will be looking for it after Christmas with the help of one of our TWO daughters who work in “video”. *singing* Here we come a waddling amoung the leaves so… green (?).

46. rivkeh  •  December 14, 2004 @12:27 pm
    

    Well, that’s cool… I’m sure the tape is old and grainy anyway. We deserve a new one. Preferably on DVD. As I just won a contest at work, if I can order it through Bbuster, I will…

47. TEQUILACAT  •  December 14, 2004 @9:42 pm
    

    Scarlett Ribbons!

48. Laura  •  December 17, 2004 @2:57 pm
    

    Just a little update on this theme of holiday specials: Lifetime, a name synonymous with crappy TV movies, has outdone itself with “The Coolest Christmas.” Santa gets a trendy queer-eye style make-over and guess who he is under all that white facial hair and bowl-full-of-jelly flab: George Hamilton! Because of course there is no place like the North Pole to get a nice leathery tan.

49. TEQUILACAT  •  December 17, 2004 @8:18 pm
    

    HO-HO-HO!

50. Angela  •  December 24, 2004 @10:22 am
    

    In case any of you want to catch this horrific flick again- NBC is showing it AGAIN tonight.

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